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COMMENT(S): Building harmony: a pipes|drums Feature Series
Published: March 27, 2009
Author: JanetteMontague | (report inappropriate content) |
| Good to hear that there ARE other adventurous things happening around the world that I haven't come across yet. |
Published: March 27, 2009
Author: JamieGreen | (report inappropriate content) |
| A couple of points for the record - at no point did I say there was no further development possible and not EVERYTHING is being done in Canada. I'm pretty sure some PMs and members of American, Australian, New Zealander, Irish, Northern Irish and of course, Scottish, bands would be rather unhappy to hear/read you say that. Even going back to 'older' times you can find some fine examples of adventurous harmonies. Have a listen to the Echo Chamber as played by Polkemmet in 1991; a slow air which I forget the name of that Black Bottle done in in their final year before becoming DUT; even The Vale doing Gershwin's Summertime in the 80s. I agree that there's further to go but I don't agree that nobody has or is doing anything adventurous or that being adventurous is something new. Oh - and so I'm clear - I competely recognise the Canadian contribution in it all - I'm just saying they're not the only ones. |
Published: March 27, 2009
Author: JanetteMontague | (report inappropriate content) |
| Maybe that Ross Griffiths piece can yet be heard some day. It IS a shame when some new things just aren't 'allowed' to be heard. I guess people as a rule are afraid of change, or suspicious of it. Even small amounts of change. It's tough if you ARE somebody who does things a bit differently, as you can be ignored, or put down for it, and maybe sometimes encouraged or appreciated. Nice to think though that those seeds you planted years ago, are still lying about there somewhere, and might spring to life some day! It does happen doesn't it - you can plant seeds and nothing appears and three years later a bunch of poppies appears. Hopefully though, that would be before the composers were dead and buried. Ah......... one day............ |
Published: March 26, 2009
Author: Bagpipermann | (report inappropriate content) |
| Good question Janette. I can only say that it WAS being done and only because our Pipe Major allowed the creative musicians in the band, T&DCPB + PRPPB the latitude to do it. For the record, we did play a 7/4 with 3 part harmonies in competition. Sadly none of us are actively playing anymore in pipe bands as we grew tired of constantly fighting the establishment to showcase this type of material. One unheard composition was a suite written by Ross Griffiths that involved many different time signatures and harmonies. It would have been used in a concert setting and submitted as a medley. We really were ahead of our time and I wonder if the pipe band world is ready even today to hear what we had to offer in addiition to what we could have subsequently created. I also feel that our influence is being heard in a watered down fashion today. Hang in there and fight the good fight! |
Published: March 26, 2009
Author: JanetteMontague | (report inappropriate content) |
| Yes, this is more the kind of thing I'm talking about. I'm not saying its never happened anywhere ever! Just that the trend has been to be a bit unadventurous, and I can't agree with the people who say there's no further development possible. But those things you mention - harmony and counterpoint, different effects, pedal points, are the things I see could be used a lot more to good effect as well as such things as 9/8, 7/6, 4/3 suspensions, fugal passages, ground bass and ostinatos, more adventurous harmonies - how about some Neapolitan 6ths, eg, - cadenzas, atonal passages, note rows, retrograde inversions of melodies over the same harmonies, cycle of fifths passages, not to mention arrangements in all the different styles etc etc etc etc.
How come anything in this area that IS being done, or has been done, seems to be in Canada? Well I think the answer to my own question is that its bigger, broader, more open and so has more space to try new things out!! |
Published: March 24, 2009
Author: Bagpipermann | (report inappropriate content) |
| Being a former member of Toronto & District Caledonian Pipe Bandand the Peel Regional Police Pipe Band for 13 years + 2 years with the 78th in a playing role only, I can assure you that 2 up/2 down was ancient material to us. The writers and arrangers in the previous 2 bands (myself being one) strived to produce new and interesting tunes complete with harmonies where warranted and whenever possible. We would use chordal harmonies and/or counterpoint regularly. In one arrangement I even simulated a keyboard type effect in a tune by pulsing the harmonies on the lower notes and "resting" on the high A (everyone played connecting high A's) in "The Goat From Whitefish Falls', written by Ross Griffiths, harmonies arranged by myself. Our inspiration was influenced by older 78th material (early eighties) and Guelph Pipe Band material from the 70's. We kinda took it from there.
I would agree that the "dischord" thing is still an issue with most PMs as most don't understand what passing/connecting notes in harmonies are.
If you want to hear some interesting counterpoint, try to find a copy of T&D playing "Shamrock Shores" arranged by Perry Gauthier.
From my point of view, I'm still not finished developing new ideas and am currently mulling over how to adjust for volume differences between bottom and top hand notes via "Hybrid" melody/harmony lines. Maybe some day when I finish scoring "The Ultimate Medley" (No, not a self indulgent rambling suite, but a real medley) I'll give it a try. Again the biggest stumbling block will most likely be the PM .....
. |
Published: March 18, 2009
Author: JamieGreen | (report inappropriate content) |
| I'd need to go back through recordings and check, which I don't have time to do right now. However, as I listen to recordings on a regular basis, if I come across such an example, I'll let you know. As far having a LONG way to go...I think we'll just have to respectfully agree to disagree on that one. |
Published: March 17, 2009
Author: JanetteMontague | (report inappropriate content) |
| I mean crescendo effects by REDUCING the harmony being added, and decrescendo by adding the number of harmony parts gradually. That kind of thing. Give me the examples you are quoting so I can listen to them. Seriously, I believe there is a long long way to go. But time will tell. |
Published: March 17, 2009
Author: JamieGreen | (report inappropriate content) |
| A call and echo effect yes - Peel Police in, I believe the late 90s. I can confirm the actual year if need be. Crescendos etc I can't see are possible, as the volume of pipes aren't adjustable. If you mean a crescendo effect by adding to the harmony being played then yes, there are numerous examples of that and you can hear them on a regular basis. |
Published: March 17, 2009
Author: JanetteMontague | (report inappropriate content) |
| Well one example - has any band produced harmony which gives the impression of dynamic contrasts - ie. a call and echo effect, louds and softs, crescendos and decrescendos? |
Published: March 16, 2009
Author: JamieGreen | (report inappropriate content) |
| I a word, no. There are limitations to what can be achieved and I think the limits have been reached already. You misunderstand me if you think I'm saying nobody should push boundaries - I'm all for it - and if there's more to be gotten out harmonies, I'll look forward to hearing it. However, I think bands have done as much as they can do in that arena. Name me something a band could do with harmonies and I'm pretty sure I could give you an example of it having been done already. |
Published: March 12, 2009
Author: JanetteMontague | (report inappropriate content) |
| No I realise harmonies have been played for donkeys years, but surely not the same for 18 years? There must have been some development - I understand not fixing things that aren't broken, but hopefully there's been some development with the years! I know things change very slowly, but don't you think there's a feeling of a change afoot - people reaching out a bit more for something different, people looking for how they can get the edge? If musicians don't change for decades, there's something wrong somewhere. What do people learn from doing things the same way decade after decade? I guess it's safe maybe, keeping things the same over such long periods, but I notice quite a few pioneering spirits in the pipe band world who I think will be keen to move a little, even if it means not winning - but they win in another sense!!. Hasn't it started to happen? |
Published: March 10, 2009
Author: JamieGreen | (report inappropriate content) |
| Apologies if I've incorrectly read what you're saying Jeanette but it seems you're saying that harmonies are only just starting to develop in pipe bands and that bands will soon be trying to push the boundaries. I'd have to disagree - as is clear from the article, FMM have been using the same 'type' of harmony arrangements for around 18+ years and don't look set to stray from the path that has given them such success. I'd say the same is true of other bands as well. Harmonies aren't really a new thing and it's unlikely that bands are going to try and change the way they've used them for the last two decades.
On a different matter - it was a great and very insightful article and one that I'm sure many bands, will get a lot of use from. I'm looking forward to the next two articles as well. |
Published: March 09, 2009
Author: Barpiper | (report inappropriate content) |
| GREAT idea for a series. Major-league kudos to the P/Ms for taking time from their schedules to undertake this effort. It is very much appreciated.
B. Robertson |
Published: March 01, 2009
Author: JanetteMontague | (report inappropriate content) |
| It's very interesting to hear how FMM approach the business of harmony writing, and very good to have the musical examples to illustrate the points. Apart from the actual effects of the harmony itself, it's a very good development tool for individual musicians (as well as for the ensemble) to have experience of.
The ability to play your own part while standing next to someone playing something different is quite a skill. And the ability to be confident in your own playing while at the same time being able to let that go enough, to also listen fully to the whole blend of sound, is a great thing for a musician to develop imho. I personally think there's nothing quite like that feeling - listening to and absorbing the 'whole' sound, while doing one's own part in contributing to it. I wondered as I read through the article, whether FMM had had a discussion amongst band members about who prefers playing harmony and who prefers being on the melody. Such a discussion can throw up very interesting and illuminating observations related to the personalities of the players!!
I like to think of the harmony as 'enhancing' the melody and showing it off to best advantage.
A worry for the future, is that as harmony writing develops and more adventurous sounds and effects are striven for, adjudicators and audience may need time to adjust, but all the while bands might be penalised for producing 'weird' 'way out' or 'discordant' sounds.
But piping and drumming will presumably catch up in that direction some day. We're still a wee bit away though, from hearing a Schoenberg arrangement in a Medley at the Worlds. But the 'two up or two down' with the occassional more satisfactory diversion from that, is a start.
Looking forward already to the next article in the series. | |
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