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COMMENT(S): Unqualified disaster: leaders comment on World's challenges
Published: September 15, 2009
Author: Lawrie | (report inappropriate content) |
| There are only about 30 Grade 1 pipe bands in the world. A sobering thought, and makes us realise how difficult it is to 'do' this pipe band caper extremely well. Not all will travel to the worlds in one year. I see no point or benefit to the standard or presentation of the event in making certain bands have to ‘qualify’. Whether its one or two days, indoors or outdoors, do whatever it takes to ensure as close to an even playing field as possible! Some bands drop tens of thousands of dollars each year, while others simply drive up the road to be there. The stakes are getting higher by the year in this ‘hobby’ of ours. If nothing else, seek to restore some equality to the day’s events, not put barriers up. |
Published: September 14, 2009
Author: Schmichael2 | (report inappropriate content) |
| For those of you who believe it should go back to the old ways where everyone was in the "final", consider this:
A medley takes at least 6 minutes in grade 1. With marching in and out let's put the mark at 10 minutes. The worlds had 23 bands competing. That's 230 minutes fo the medley alone. Let's put the MSR at 8. That gives you a total playing time of 7 hours. We would still need to start in the morning, no gain there. I don't believe in getting the thing indoors. Host a two day contest, and allow the winners of the continental championships a space in the final. This would ensure the winner of the North American and Australia Chanpionships a space. Seem's fair to me. |
Published: September 02, 2009
Author: Bagpipermann | (report inappropriate content) |
| Hey now! I mentioned the spectators, questioning whether or not they enjoyed showing up at 8:30 in the cold rain along with the competitors! Let's face it, most people would rather show up later in the morning, especially since it is their weekend..a time to rest and relax from the harrowing daily grind. |
Published: September 02, 2009
Author: AndrewBerthoff | (report inappropriate content) |
| It occurs to me that the article focused entirely on the conditions for the competitors. I'd think that an audience assured that they won't be drenched and cold all day could go a long way, too. The images of people huddled under umbrellas or wrapped in winter coats are almost comical. |
Published: August 30, 2009
Author: FDNYPiper | (report inappropriate content) |
| Maybe a massive tent that covers the G1 playing area would be a better solution than moving the event away. At least if you keep the sides open it will keep most of the environment out and not affect the piping as much? |
Published: August 28, 2009
Author: danto | (report inappropriate content) |
| I was at Glasgow Green on the day, competing in Grade 4A, and although my band qualified I would commiserate wholeheartedly with every other band that wasn't so fortunate -- the weather in the morning frankly stank!
With regard to comments about the 78th's alleged poor sportsmanship, I would have to say that that is not my experience of that fine band. The spirit that the Frasers showed in extremely adverse conditions was hugely creditable.
And I can also tell you firsthand, when every other band had dispersed to the four corners of the earth to lick their collective wounds that night after the Worlds, the 78th were the only band that stood together, singing their hearts out at Todd Bar well into the night. As fine a bunch of guys and gals as you'll ever hope to meet in the piping scene. Hats off to the 78th. |
Published: August 28, 2009
Author: AGL | (report inappropriate content) |
| What happened to the days when there was no qualifier and all bands played? I suppose a qualifier would be helpful in the other grades where contests have an insane amount of bands. However, in the phrase 'World Pipe band Championship,' the operative word is WORLD. If the qualifier turns away bands, then doesn't take the 'world' aspect out of it? Run all twenty five or so Grade 1 bands! They have Grade 2 and Grade 3 contest with that amount of bands, so why is Grade 1 any different? There should an MSR and Medley event, that's all. |
Published: August 28, 2009
Author: cammy1 | (report inappropriate content) |
| thing is donald...that band didn't have to qualify..not that im suggesting anything..of course |
Published: August 26, 2009
Author: Lawrie | (report inappropriate content) |
| The qualifier serves no purpose. All these bands are recognised as Grade One bands by the RSPBA. Why must they qualify for the event when they are in the top grade? Is it just and fair that the number of places they are playing-off for vary each year?
Let them all play in an open contest, like it used to be. The cream will still rise to the top. Plus there would actually be fewer performances to get through in the day.
As for playing indoors: maybe. Comparisons to sport ignore the fact that most competitors/opposing teams play each other at the same time and in the same conditions.
The 78ths were poor, no doubt. PM Livingston was very classy and tactful in his comments, but the weather was a factor - of course it was! Anyone who cannot see this reality has never played in such conditions themselves. The pipes misbehave, water droplets alter note holes, hands go numb, technique becomes more about survival than musical expression etc etc. Its a nightmare, especially if tens of thousands of dollars have been spent to be there. Bands should make their own luck with their preparations and planning, not have it dictated to them by the weather at 9am. Ridiculous!
If you're Grade One, on you go! No Qualification necessary. You've done the hard work already just to be in that grade. What is there to prove other than what the results table says at the end of the day. Band that don't qulaify are left to speculate where they might sit. Time for a rethink. |
Published: August 25, 2009
Author: pyperpiper | (report inappropriate content) |
| Remember... when a band has better weather on the field they are almost guaranteed to have had worse weather tuning up! Swings and roundabouts. |
Published: August 25, 2009
Author: Stew | (report inappropriate content) |
| A well balanced article and good to hear the views of Bill, John and Andrew. I feel for them along with other good bands who missed out on the final - the qualifier takes no prisoners and it’s a shame we didn’t get to hear their medley’s in the afternoon.
I know all too well how tough the qualifier is. For many Grade 1 bands qualification is quite rightly the main goal of the day and doing well in the final is secondary – it becomes all consuming to the point where some bands are gripped by a ‘fear of failure’ which puts players in a bad place mentally and does nothing to bring out the best in them. Overcoming the mental issues and building confidence is one of the biggest hurdles in qualifying - a wound up band on Point A will not produce the goods in the circle. Personally speaking, a lot of the planning for the Worlds centres around what it takes to qualify, influencing matters such as tune selection, pipe set up and practice routines, all to try and minimise the risk of things turning pear shaped during that critical 4-5 minutes. A competitive rather than a musical choice, but you’ve got to do what it takes sometimes. My own band’s set up of favouring the canister system is more than partly to do with the prospect of playing three times on a wet and cold Glasgow Green, and thinking of what will serve best come the late afternoon - if we’re fortunate enough to be playing then.
It is however more than time for the qualifier debate to be opened up. I don’t have a problem with the qualifier in principle but this year I really felt that playing three times at completely different times of day (and in completely different conditions each time) put qualifying bands at a distinct disadvantage. Previously I would have thought ‘so be it - such are the breaks’, but I’m now convinced it could be fairer. I fail to see why the Grade 1 qualifier, or indeed qualifiers for all grades, could not be held on Friday afternoon. Sure it may mean players in UK bands may need to take a day or half day off work, but considering what some bands do just to get to Glasgow Green I don’t think this is too big an ask.
I also think more bands should qualify – why only 14 bands in the final? A final comprising 16 bands for example is still manageable in judging terms, and would allow up to 8 bands through from the qualifier. If you look at this year’s entry that would have meant a majority would have qualified, and I guess if you can’t make the top half in the morning then it’s just tough luck. I have been informed from a reliable source that it comes down to how many performances can fit onto two CD’s/DVD’s, although given there is so much online media available of the Worlds nowadays this surely shouldn’t be a major driving factor. I’m also sure that bands ending up outside the top 14 in the final would quite happily forgo not being on the recordings if it meant the difference between qualifying or not. If time scheduling on the day is a factor then start the final 30mins earlier and truncate the march past and prizegiving, what is more important at the end of the day?
I do not think the event should be moved indoors. A band playing in a concert hall can be very enjoyable although a large resonant chamber can hide the detail somewhat, and more often than not the snare line is overpowering. By contrast, everything is clear as a bell outdoors and allows for more accurate and detailed adjudication. Can you also just imagine the mayhem of many bands coming and going backstage in quick succession? Spare a thought also for tuning space!? As for the weather, it’s part and parcel of competing and something you just need to deal with as best you can. Only having to deal with it twice on the same day would be nice though.
A worthy debate for sure, and I just hope the powers that be are listeining.
Stewart McKenzie
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Published: August 25, 2009
Author: Donald | (report inappropriate content) |
| Well Cammy1, the devil's advocate would suggest that the pipe corps of the band on whose roster your name appears weren't much better, and they had nice weather. I clearly wouldn't say such a thing, of course. |
Published: August 24, 2009
Author: AlMcMullin | (report inappropriate content) |
| Knowing that no matter what is said, it won't make any difference, here goes: Firstly, congratulations to the interviewed pipe majors. They avoided whining even though considering the amount of money and time invested in the trip, it would have been understandable. Secondly, one would think that winning the North American Pipe Band Championship would be enough to avoid a "world's" qualifier. Finally, anything that could be done to improve the MUSICAL performances is worth consideration and/or experimentation. I don't see dicey weather conditions doing anything positive to the music. |
Published: August 24, 2009
Author: cammy1 | (report inappropriate content) |
| ok well we could go back to the old system of...play the msr..have a tuning ring...then play the medley |
Published: August 24, 2009
Author: iainmacdonald | (report inappropriate content) |
| The qualifier is a brutal and essentially unfair event. Fair play to the bands in any year who get through, but almost no one expects them to be in the list at the end of the day. Time for something better for all these bands, without whom there would be no "World Championship."
The 78th Frasers are a great band, and one bad day is just a bad day. |
Published: August 24, 2009
Author: Bagpipermann | (report inappropriate content) |
| The event won't move inside. Bands are best heard outside. Weather has always been a factor, but starting at 9:00 am has not. Best thing to do is to split the contest over 2 days for all the grades and have qualifiers on the 1st day with finals on the second. By doing this, the contests could be moved to the afternoon so that at least if its wet, it shouldn't be cold as well. There are a few good reasons besides the obvious ones. One, it makes for a better quality contest for everyone. Who can complain about that (I"ll guess we'll find out in a minute!). Two, who says the spectators enjoy showing up at 8:30 in the cold rain? Maybe they would appreciate a more reasonable start time as well. Three, sell tickets at a higher price that are good for both days to encourage everyone to attend the full show. It could lead to better profitability. And hold it on Saturday and Sunday as people either competing or watching may have to work on Friday. Here's hoping common sense prevails. |
Published: August 24, 2009
Author: RWilson | (report inappropriate content) |
| I think it's comments like these that may potentially reflect some of the thinking at the RSPBA:
"well its been played in these conditions for over 50 years..why should it change now"
I guess my argument for you is why shouldn't it change? I was once told if you kept doing things the same way you would get the same results, if you wanted the result to change then change how you are doing it. Given that we all want Pipe Bands to be givin more attention it seems obvious that running the same old event wont achieve that....maybe it is time for a change. |
Published: August 24, 2009
Author: cammy1 | (report inappropriate content) |
| well its been played in these conditions for over 50 years..why should it change now..there was a lot of mixed and dodgy results out there..some of these judges i wouldnt trust to judge a dog show never mind pipe bands...do away with the qualifier..have the msr in the morning and the medley in the afternoon...everyone plays..and its the luck of the draw as far as the weather goes |
Published: August 24, 2009
Author: JanetteMontague | (report inappropriate content) |
| Reading the article makes me think that some see the event as primarily a game/sporting event/ spectacle - and maybe for them 'outside' it's to be, whatever the weather. I'd prefer a music contest, where musical instruments weren't subjected to inclement weather, and where performers - who are after all musicians - were kept dry, warm and comfortable, able to give of their best. It's odd to me, to think of taking a precious musical instrument into a down-pour, and to make musicians stand in freezing rain while performing. When I told my elderly mother about the 78th Frasers plight and the rain, she said 'oh mercy me, and them so far frae hame tae - did somebody have warm towels and spare clothes waiting for them?' That made me wonder whether the RSPBA had a hospitality marquis where bands could dry off, warm up at a fire, and be given a mug of hot soup. Now I see they'd to head off in taxis and wet clothes. Apart from anything else, it's not very hospitable or welcoming, esp if bands have travelled across the world to attend. | |
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