|
 |
|
|
COMMENT(S): RSPBA suspends Kilpatrick for three months for Facebook comment
Published: August 13, 2012
Author: bake | (report inappropriate content) |
| Pure pish.....recall many past beer tent "nose to nose" sessions between PMs/LDs and various judges, with near coming to blows on occasion, both in Ontario and across the pond, and never a suspension. Future judging results consequences for sure (sometimes for the better, often not). Now that it's facebook instead of in front of peers it's an issue??? Our loss as bandsmen, and fans....
Mike Baker |
Published: August 13, 2012
Author: GauchoPiper | (report inappropriate content) |
| a very good statement. Shows maturity and good sense.
Look forward to next year. |
Published: August 12, 2012
Author: uilleannonlooker | (report inappropriate content) |
| Well 'GrimlyHatchet' having never seen the offending comments I can only speculate about what he actually wrote. To reply to your question if he was in some way trying to intimidate or bully the judges via facebook, I would think that unlikely. I think he just got carried away with the comments and never really thought of the repercussions (pun intended), or even considered there would be any in the first place. I would say he removed the comments for no other reason than in the cold light of day he was probably embarrassed about them. |
Published: August 11, 2012
Author: GrimlyHatchet | (report inappropriate content) |
| Astute observations 'uilleannonlooker'. Reckon you've summed up the situation pretty well.
However. Why did JK comment on facebook about the drumming adjudicator and the result of the British at Annan? The comments were sure to spread. Did he believe that his corps was better than the 6th place it was placed? Was it an attempt to intimidate and influence this particular adjudicator and other adjudicators too?
I've asked on this thread for comments as to how the corps played and if the result was reasonable.
There hasn't been any reply.
|
Published: August 11, 2012
Author: uilleannonlooker | (report inappropriate content) |
| I would like to know where this "apology" from JK is? Are people talking about his youtube video? I never heard the word sorry mentioned once. I heard a couple of minutes of stating what happened, but didn't hear any apology.
I seem to be in the minority and agree 100% with Lawrie below, He got too big for his boots and in doing so steamrolled his PM and pipe corp.
It is a two way street with JK and RSPBA, he has been a great champion and role model over the years and has done a lot for the pipe band scene. But so have the RSPBA done an awful lot to assist JK in his career, not least in creating a band scene in which he can sell all his wares. To reiterate, I don't think he is sorry, and I do think the RSPBA got it right. He alluded to the "most important" aspect of the ban himself (not that he let his band and drum corp down mind you) that he would not be able to attend the drumming solos and perhaps have another win and bolster his ego. I imagine he took the exact same attitude to the big meeting he had with the RSPBA and they took the same conclusion as myself, that he isn't at all sorry, and needs to brought into line. This is not a case of the tail wagging the dog, the dog is just showing the tail who is the boss, and has had enough individuals thinking they are above the institution.
|
Published: August 11, 2012
Author: JanetteM | (report inappropriate content) |
| How do people regard Facebook comments? I see them as personal. Do people really regard daily Facebook posts as official statements or announcements? Get real. The RSPBA is going to be flooded with complaints if people are going to pick up on personal Facebook entries where the RSPBA is mentioned negatively. I think it's a complete nonsense, almost difficult to believe. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. And deflecting from what it's meant to be all about--the music--or is it? I hope the person who put in the complaint has been well and truly DEfriended! |
Published: August 10, 2012
Author: tripper | (report inappropriate content) |
| Whatever Jim put on Facebook is none of your business unless you are his friend on Facebook. In which case you still can't punish the guy for stating his thoughts on Facebook. This whole thing is a joke. Really. I can't believe it. Jim you better firm up your privacy settings. In any case Jim apologized and is living with his punishment and that says a lot.
I think he and the RSPBA would rather this be forgotten but unfortunately i think it will go on for a very long time. And years from now kids will be listening to the 2012 worlds CD and wonder why Shotts did not play. It really is a sad state and all because of nothing.
Facebook sucks. |
Published: August 10, 2012
Author: GrimlyHatchet | (report inappropriate content) |
| Surely Shotts & Dykes; JK; the RSPBA, and the Adjudicator won't get upset if opinions are given as to whether or not the drum corps was given a reasonable result at the 2012 British Championships at Annan?
How did the drum corps play?
Did it get a reasonable placing? |
Published: August 10, 2012
Author: GrimlyHatchet | (report inappropriate content) |
| What about the result that was critcised on facebook?
Did it seem fair?
Was it reasonable?
Grimly Hatchet |
Published: August 10, 2012
Author: tripper | (report inappropriate content) |
| How can Jim be wrong? It was his opinion and in his mind he was expressing what he believed to be true. He took the comments down because he probably figured it would lessen the punishment. I am happy he said what he did. Adjudicators are not always right. But in the adjudicators defence he should also be allowed his opinion. Maybe he thought Jim's core was not that great on the day. This is the problem with judging a musical instrument. People have thier own preferences. Nobody is punishing the judge for his comments on the score sheet. I believe it is subjective in every way. If a judge can give his opinion then why can't the person performing.
This is so dumb.
Good on you Jim I appreciate what you did and fully support you.
Whom ever supports this suspension is wrong wrong wrong. |
Published: August 10, 2012
Author: tripper | (report inappropriate content) |
| In addition here's an idea. Hire four people that have never played the pipes or lifted a drum and get them to judge. Then perhaps you may get an unbiased opinion of who sounded and performed best not saying all judges are bias at all but it would be interesting to see the results. . Just a thought.
|
Published: August 10, 2012
Author: summerdrummer | (report inappropriate content) |
| All this publicity this week is a mere smoke screen for the fact that Shotts CANNOT field a band. OK, KP is banned but there's so much talent another could have played lead, SC isn't banned so they have a bass drummer, so why oh why are Shotts NOT PLAYING. It's very simple, at this moment they have 7 pipers left and not enough to field a band, never mind a band with a chance. Folks, don't be so blinded by the reality here, the PM walked because of this, he felt he had no choice. His brother then walked, but so did several other players, the comments were removed. You need to ask yourself why instead of bashing the RSPBA again. Jim is a great player, in fact the greatest in my opinion. BUT, in this instance he's wrong, so very wrong and I think he knows it otherwise he would not have removed his comments. I hope he does become a judge one day, because OUR association needs people like him in this game or it will surely die. If he's truly sorry he will not let this incident stop him giving more services to pipe bands. |
Published: August 10, 2012
Author: Lawrie | (report inappropriate content) |
| Here we go, more RSPBA bashing. When are pipe band people ever happy? A bunch of whingers and Unionists. If you don’t like it, go start your own Association and run it how you like. I’m sure that before too long it will be riddled with all the problems you’re currently whinging about (if anyone can be bothered staying the course for long enough). And good luck getting any judges to come across and help out. If you’re not prepared to do all that, zip your lips, acquire some class and dignity, and just get on with it. Some results will be good, most won’t. That’s life.
Also very disappointing to see some prominent names buying-in here and defending what is nothing more than libellous conduct. Use your brains. Some of you are in an excellent position to make an example of this – “This is how dangerous social media is, kiddies…”. Would anyone on here like to have been portrayed the same way by the same prominent and legendary man? More mud sticks when the heavyweights say it.
The concept of integrity is such a loose thing these days. The RSPBA has done the right thing in smashing this. The howls of injustice are all misguided and blinded by emotion. How would JK feel if he was slapped with a lawsuit by the judge in question, or the RSPBA? His only hope would be to settle out of court. He hasn’t got a leg to stand on.
If he had had a genuine concern about the quality of the judging on the day, he should have addressed it through the appropriate channels, i.e. in a highly confidential manner.
He’ll be a judge one day. Let’s see how he likes it when prominent names start to debase him on the internet simply because he exercises his opinions on what he likes and does not like as a judge. When a band enters a contest, it enters into a contract to accept the rules and conditions. Having a very public whinge after the fact is not only pointless but stupid. What effect would a three month ban have if the band was seemingly not going to compete anyway? They didn’t play at the Europeans. Seems like a little smack on the wrist and a political statement.
I’d wager that PM Walker tried to have it out with 'Oysters' and got rolled. The PM’s brother has also departed. No coincidence. Now the RSPBA has had to step in and issue a more ‘visible’ penalty in lieu of the band failing to mete out its own. I'm sure the RSPBA would have preferred it to have remained an internal matter for the band to sort out, but someone clearly thought they were beyond reproach, and now the PM has left because he realised who runs that band. Jk’s all contrite now that it’s gone viral and embarrassed him (although you’d question why he’d opt to post on Facebook and not think it would be). But prior to all this he seemed willing to snub his nose and brush his PM aside. Poor conduct, fitting penalty.
|
Published: August 09, 2012
Author: masonsapron | (report inappropriate content) |
| It's pretty unanimous that people are not in support of this suspension. The question is whether the Pipe Band world is just going to accept this ruling and let the dust settle or are they collectively willing to do something in protest. |
Published: August 09, 2012
Author: FredFomm | (report inappropriate content) |
| This struck me as if I was reading one of those "Iraqi Christian priest to be hanged tomorrow in Baghdad" news we used to see popping around from time to time. Perhaps Kilpatrick wasn't exactly right to write that on such a broad social network. however two wrongs do not make a right, and the RSPBA decision seems to me as wrong and as exaggerated as Jim's. |
Published: August 09, 2012
Author: Bagpipermann | (report inappropriate content) |
| A while back some "posters" were complaining that not everyone used their real name when adding comments or opinions to this site, thinking pehaps it was cowardly, or something of that nature. Do we now have a collective understanding of the reason that people like to use pen names when commenting or critizing, especially on sensitive topics? |
Published: August 09, 2012
Author: robbiem | (report inappropriate content) |
| Along with freedom comes responsibility.
Sadly too many Tweeters, Twitters et.al. do not wish to embrace this.
I have to say though that the 'punishment' seems way too severe.
Would not a severe reprimand have sufficed?
I dread to think what the punishment would be if anyone committed a 'serious offence'!
|
Published: August 09, 2012
Author: chasc | (report inappropriate content) |
| jk did not like the judging comments or placing,the judge did not like jk's comments ,all square by my reckoning.why all th is hastle?
chasc |
Published: August 09, 2012
Author: guru | (report inappropriate content) |
| Jim is a fantastic drummer I agree, but if you want to through your dummy out the pram then do it in the confines of your own band hall. He should have known better. |
Published: August 09, 2012
Author: summerdrummer | (report inappropriate content) |
| Freedom of speech, yet the comments to Pipes and Drums are monitored, so where's the freedom of speech there?
It's interesting that many of the Scots I speak with actually think this is correct. The fact Jim removed these comments says it all, in the cold light of day afterwards he realised he was wrong.
His actions, cost the PM to resign, the band are NOT banned and can play on Saturday and at Cowal, just without Jim as lead drummer. There's talk of HoE pulling sponsorship of the band.
For me, I seen the comments on Facebook, the replies, the reply to replies etc, etc and Jim has thousands of followers, many of the young kids. Is this really the example we need to be setting these young kids from an MBE? I personally don't think so.
|
Published: August 09, 2012
Author: Stuartbake | (report inappropriate content) |
| First of all, kudos to Jim for handling his end of this with grace and dignity. Frankly, I thought his idea of letting he and the judge talk it out was fantastic.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the rules that were cited are extremely broad and very general. If the standard has been set here both in interpretation of the rules and punishment for violatios, then many more three month, or longer, suspensions have to be imposed or this will be as arbitrary and capricious as it seems now.
I think RSPBA has backed themselves into a corner and Jim comes out in a better position with more fans. |
Published: August 09, 2012
Author: JanetteM | (report inappropriate content) |
| Difficult to know what to say re this as imho it's so unbelievably misguided on the part of the RSPBA.Are they trying to empty Glasgow Green, sabotage Piping Live, or is this some kind of desperate attempt to say 'we really DO have the power' when they know it's maybe slipping away from them? People say such things all the time on Social Media platforms. It's the new way of having conversations and sharing opinions and thoughts. They're going to have their work cut out if they intend policing Facebook and public Blogs. Saying what you feel, openly and honestly, is good for emotional; and mental health. Hearing of your weaknesses and discrepancies is the best way to develop and learn. No signs here that the RSPBA is interested in either peoples' opinions (unless they're positive) or in learning. They obviously see all this more like football, rather than an art form, music. It's enough to make piping enthusiasts like me look for a new hobby. I mean,. why, given this, would anybody choose to be affiliated with the RSPBA in any shape or form? Imho Jim Kilpatrick stands MILES higher than them today. |
Published: August 09, 2012
Author: Lawrie | (report inappropriate content) |
| While I hate to break up plans to storm the Bastille by the JK fan club, there is actually a case to answer by the man himself. Has anyone questioned the wisdom of someone with JK’s standing using Facebook in such a way? Everyone seems too busy trying to portray a dictatorship. This is not about ‘freedom of speech’, as many are touting here, this is all about a libellous comment made on the most public forum on earth by a high-profile person who should know better. JK is extremely experienced and has seen all the highs and lows, and should be well equipped to take his medicine on one bad result. I find his involvement in this to be disappointing, as he should be a person who sets a good example and stamps this sort of thing out when he sees it around him. Instead, he not only condoned it but also participated. It’s just bad sportsmanship and he looks like a sore loser, as does his band.
The RSPBA are setting a precedent, and are only trying to stamp out poor conduct, not opinions. It might be a somewhat heavy penalty, but their hand was called when one of the biggest names in the caper thought that Facebook was a suitable vehicle to question their integrity. What choice did they have? A one-to-one chat with the judge (as proposed by JK) is just window dressing. He publicly attacked the judge, but wants to deal with any consequences to him privately? That was never going to fly.
Judges have their own opinions and sometimes it doesn’t go as people would like. Everyone gets their ‘turn’ with good and bad results, so to speak. We all know this but we keep coming back (and therefore accept it). How people in bands deal with that is the real issue here. Has anyone ever attacked a judge when the result favours them? Of course not. The issue here is the JK has showed poor judgement and has not considered the standing he has in the caper and whether it would be appropriate to ‘go public’. Whether people wish to argue his was a ‘throwaway line’, it has no place on a public forum because it goes viral instantly and becomes an uncontrolled comment. Did JK’s comment intend to criticise a result, the judge concerned and also imply that the fix was in? The RSPBA – love them of not – are the body that has facilitated all of JK’s competitions successes. For him to then ‘bite the hand’, so to speak, makes him look somewhat (dare I say) arrogant, in my opinion. He made a mistake here and should have known better for no other reason than because of who he is. Simple.
|
Published: August 09, 2012
Author: srmdrummer | (report inappropriate content) |
| I, like many here, am amazed and appalled by this decision by the RSPBA; heavy-handed to say the least. I would suggest that if the judge in question at Annan is prepared to stand by his placing on that day for all the right, honourable and musical reasons, then JK's comments should be written-off or ignored as nothing more that 'sour grapes' or idle chatter made in the heat of the moment. On the other hand, if the judge involved feels even the slightest tinge of 'guilt' that the placing given was less than that deserved, then he (and the RSPBA) should hang their collective heads in shame. Unfortunately the world is stuck with the RSPBA as the de facto global 'peak body', but its reputation takes hit after hit, year after year through its ridiculously small-minded attitude and arbitrary decision-making! In retrospect, Jim's words may be considered ill-advised, but the punishment outweighs the actions by several orders of magnitude. I wonder if a different judge had been involved, whether or not the reaction would have been as harsh? Jim's response was totally dignified and totally contrite, and he is to be congratulated on his response under the circumstances.
- Stephen Matthews |
Published: August 09, 2012
Author: Batman | (report inappropriate content) |
| So, let's recap. One of the undisputed most knowledgeable and talented pipeband AND solo drummers in the world questions the judging at one contest on an unofficial social media site, so the governing asociation, rather than looking into the possibilty that the judging was questionable, suspends the more knowledgeable and talented guy? That about it? Stay classy RSPBA. |
Published: August 09, 2012
Author: MelissaMunro | (report inappropriate content) |
| RSPBA "ruling" very similar in colour to our Canadian Harper government. I should watch what I say, however, as I may already have been declared "an enemy of the state." The RSPBA should re-align themselves with the fact that their very existence relies upon the heavenly skill and and dedication of Mr. Kilpatrick and thousands of others. Otherwise, they would simply be a bunch of grumpies sitting around a table down' ta' pub. Och Aye Jim. Melissa Munro, Maxville, ON |
Published: August 08, 2012
Author: tripper | (report inappropriate content) |
| Perhaps the members who gave this rediculous suspension should stick to piping and drumming and not read into social media sites. Whatever Jim said was his own opinion. Is he not entitled to have an opinion and share it with his friends on a social media site such as Facebook.
This small piping and drumming world is getting bogged down with too many rules and regulations. These people who create these rules are ruining it for everyone.
Let the man play. |
Published: August 08, 2012
Author: bonnieprinceandy | (report inappropriate content) |
| I'm guessing that they only choose to flex that kind of muscle when it suits to further thier agendas. I'm sure someone further down the ladder wouldn't have had any penalties like this, no matter what they said. |
Published: August 08, 2012
Author: Flingshitehigh | (report inappropriate content) |
| Was in Glasgow today..it's not the same without Shotts especially the absence of Jim and his drum corps and their famous practice sessions at Todd's Bar.
Jim is a wonderful ambassador for Scotland and an inspiration to young drummers throughout the World . He is a wonderful role model for our youngsters and on the few occasions I have met him he could not have been more helpful .
He has accepted the sanctions and punishment with dignity..I hope that Shotts can regroup and get back to their winning ways in the not too distant future. |
Published: August 08, 2012
Author: kiegelmann | (report inappropriate content) |
| I can see how the association needs/wants to protect their judges, however, there is a fine line drawn here with respect to freedon of speech. Clearly they are trying to set a precedent however Jim knows better than anyone (judge included) how his drum corps played that day. I hope the departure of both the PM and PS were due to them supporting their lead tip. |
Published: August 08, 2012
Author: KirkJ | (report inappropriate content) |
| When did piping & drumming judges get raised to such an exhaulted level that one is not ALLOWED to comment on their work. Believe it or not, there are bad judges out there. |
Published: August 08, 2012
Author: JamesLaughlin | (report inappropriate content) |
| What an absolute JOKE. It would be fair to say that WE ALL have said something about judges decisions. Let's be honest, sometimes the judging at contests is totally questionable. If the RSPBA want to be consistent with their decision, they should go back through the Facebook accounts of a few other top PMs and LD's from current Grade 1 bands, I have seen at least another 3 people that made comments WAY worse than Jims in the last 12 months. Total rubbish. I am sure the other contenders for the World Championship Sash will not be happy that Shotts are not competing - it isn't really a "true" World Championship without the current World Drum Corps Champions! |
Published: August 08, 2012
Author: 7footpiper | (report inappropriate content) |
| It's worth pointing out that not every country guarantees freedom of speech to their citizens. I would strongly suggest looking up exactly what is and is not permitted in the UK before passing judgement on the RSPBA's decision. |
Published: August 08, 2012
Author: masonsapron | (report inappropriate content) |
| Perhaps the North American bands and others should remove themselves from the Worlds next year in protest and Make Maxville the big games. Then the RSPBA's contest in Glasgow won't really be as "Worldly" . |
Published: August 08, 2012
Author: Doc | (report inappropriate content) |
| Where can I buy the official RSPBA duck tape to place over my mouth and the mouths of everyone else in my band? Like I posted earlier, this is the tail waging the dog. Maybe the bands at the Worlds should all wear black armbands to mourn the death of freedom of speech.....
"Doc"
Kent Argubright |
Published: August 08, 2012
Author: PipesReady | (report inappropriate content) |
| Looks like "predictable shaftings " by drumming judges are popular this year ! ( On both sides of the pond )
Sorry to hear Freedom of Speech is not so free. As they say, " No names. No pack drill " !
|
Published: August 08, 2012
Author: StuLiddell | (report inappropriate content) |
| What a pile of shite. (can I say that?) It's hard to find a more diplomatic person in our little world. What Jim has done for pipe bands cannot be said in words. We still make comments about judges on things that were 20 years ago, none of them mean spirited. Perhaps the RSPBA has adopted the FIFA way of thinking. I'm sickened by this decision. |
Published: August 08, 2012
Author: Carroll | (report inappropriate content) |
| The HoE Shotts and Dykehead band can't compete at ALL for three months, or just can't compete with Jim playing in the corps during that time? |
Published: August 08, 2012
Author: herecomethedrums | (report inappropriate content) |
| Ludicrous. Ridiculous. Preposterous. I could go on. The RSPBA need to catch a hold of themselves. What ever happened to freedom of speech? The fact, that a very large number of people were thinking exactly what Jim said, say's a lot in its self. No disrespect to any G1 band, they all play to a magnificent standard, but if a personal issue between a band/corps/person and a judge, has over several years meant that the band/corps are at a perceived disadvantage in competition, it should be addressed. | |
| |
|
|
|
