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COMMENT(S): Guarded enthusiasm
Published: January 25, 2013
Author: rsm | (report inappropriate content) |
| There are tunes in this book having been assigned as traditional or not having a composer mentioned in the upper right corner of the page. Any good piper who does not know the composer of some of these wonderful tunes must have had his or her head covered in plastic and stuck in the sand. I personally detest this treatment of great compositions. It is why so many of our works are traditional. I wonder how some of the Scots Guard's pipers would feel if their tunes were treated in this manner. What a shame! |
Published: November 17, 2012
Author: Lawrie | (report inappropriate content) |
| Neil, I think you're right. I would add that most people are more concerned with due process and respect more so than the trickle of whatever royalties there may be. There is simply no excuse for publishing material without the prior consent of the composer (if they still own the rights). Not now, not in the past and not into the future. Are these publishers living under a rock? Of cousrse, not. They just know that the pipe band world is, has and looks like remaining a soft touch and won't even give a yelp. |
Published: November 17, 2012
Author: NeilDickie | (report inappropriate content) |
| I hope this thread doesn't meander into the complex labyrinth that is copyright. This issue isn't about fees and royalties and terms and public domain per se. My issue (and I believe what irks the other composers) is that our material has appeared without any of our knowledge or approval.
I resent institutions like the RSPBA and the Guards (well, their publishers) using our material without regard for its provenance. It seems there is no consequence to their cavalier behaviour. I'm all for joining a union of bagpipe music writers. I just wonder who would be our "voice". Such a shame that Gordon Duncan is gone - this could have been his new Suemas. |
Published: November 17, 2012
Author: Bagpipermann | (report inappropriate content) |
| RE "And to think the medical publisher pointed out what he paid for the basson piece, just points out what composers in a just world would be capable of getting if the rules were in place".
Mmmm, not exactly....chances are that the composer is decomposing as I compose this, so I doubt that he/she will directly receive anything in terms of royalties.
Perhaps the decomposing composer's relatives will receive the royalties in their place?....almost like the Greek pension plan?
So how far back do we go with this? 50, 100, 200, 500, 1000 years?
Justice? Yes? No? Maybe?
It is not as black and white as the notes on the printed page, but perhaps, well, more like shades of Grey?
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Published: November 17, 2012
Author: uilleannonlooker | (report inappropriate content) |
| such a melting pot of everythng that is wrong with the pipeband world, and one thinks if the rspba had of acted many moons ago on the issue of copyright this may not have happened today. The Scots Guards people are clearly still living in a world where they just assume every composer that got in their coveteted publication would be jumping for joy and thanking them for acknowledging their talent, sadly the days of the scots guards being a powerful instition, are gone with the days of the British Empire ruling the world. The scots guard's just havent got the memo yet(and we have moved on from that technology too)
And to think the medical publisher pointed out what he paid for the basson piece, just points out what composers in a just world would be capable of getting if the rules were in place, the SG III is a steal at the price for the amount of tunes in it, for the very reason, that some may use the word "steal" to suggest how they procured the tunes in the first place. |
Published: November 17, 2012
Author: BillLivingstone | (report inappropriate content) |
| Before this kerfuffle started I had already decided to create a website where I will post every composition that I have, including several that have not yet seen publication. And the scores will be available at the price the user wants to pay...that's right...free if the downloader is OK with that. This will make the stuff available for pipers to play (what every composer wants) and one hopes, lead to performance where the copyright rules will still apply. Watch this space for further news! |
Published: November 16, 2012
Author: DavidMathews | (report inappropriate content) |
| but is it so cheap because we dont even take our own music and composers seriously? grateful for a big ol' collection but at what price. |
Published: November 16, 2012
Author: ThomMoore | (report inappropriate content) |
| I'm a book publisher of 25 years' experience -- medical books, so you've got to be pretty anal about everything or you sometimes could get people killed. The SG3 is a nicely done book but there are quite a few -- maybe a few too many -- annoying typos and some strange and missing placements of gracings and doublings. RE: permissions, in the old days publishers had actual experts who dealt with these things as they were considered really important. In the Big Publishing biz, the MBA folks, and especially the folks in finance, have pretty much cut out stuff like permissions editing, proofreading, and even copy editing as too costly. Bottom line is that it's a miracle THIS massive collection was published at all in this environment, and that the quality issues weren't much worse. Frankly, $75 or so is a ridiculously small amount to pay for a collection like this -- have ya'll seen what you'll pay for ONE "classical" music piece published, say, in Germany? Hey, I just paid $50 for 5 pages of a bassoon sonata. |
Published: November 16, 2012
Author: Stig | (report inappropriate content) |
| The SG collections has over the years been good at wrapping up the repertoire. A kind of "Who is Who" or "what has happened since the last volume".
I find it amazing though that they mistook a fellow Army PM for Robertson instead for Morrison.They have spent 11 years on the project, far more than was spent on the Vol. 1 up to 1954 with all the modern facilities that was unavailable in 1954.
Still it's on the shelve waiting for the winter to come and I wouldn't be without it. |
Published: November 16, 2012
Author: Doc | (report inappropriate content) |
| I was pretty happy with SGvIII before all this copyright hullabaloo came to light. These copyright issues seem to be never ending for us, both with recordings and music manuscripts. It is a continuing disturbing issue. In many ways, at the end-of-the-day, it's an issue of respect or lack of it. At least, for myself, I've been around long enough so I've got most of these manuscripts in the original copyrighted version, even Edcath bk3! And, Bill, your publications are prominently included! But we all know how hard it is to get your hands on some of these manuscripts these days....limited editions, privately published, out of print and all. It's a puzzlement for a young piper trying to get their hands on original printed music manuscripts. Most of them seem to going to the recent on-line services or depend on their instructor's personnel libraries, which raises even more questions.
Kent Argubright |
Published: November 16, 2012
Author: Lawrie | (report inappropriate content) |
| Bill, your account reminds me of a recording I played on, where I was offered an additional ‘performance fee’ for the matinee and evening shows that were being recorded for commercial release. This later turned out to be an acceptance on my part to apparently waive my rights to any royalties and/or performer points, despite there being no written mention (not even implied between the lines) in the ‘offer’. In the lead-up to signing this, I sought to cover-off that this was not a waiver in disguise, and got a response that sought to allay my concerns. Despite this, the matter rages on.
The verbal contract you are alleged to have entered into says it all. [edited] And you’re probably the exception, Bill – most other composers appear to have not been contacted at all, as per Neil’s account. Apparently the works of composers of pipe music are wholly benevolent and public domain once the ink dries, and not worth a one red cent.
The copyright issue is one that the piping world cannot come to terms with, and likely never will. From the outside, we are seen as hobbyists and walkovers. When the ‘Beeb’ broadcast a rock concert, the acknowledgements are a mile long and nothing is left to chance because there are major record companies with crack teams of lawyers circling the skies in helicopters, ready to abseil into action at a seconds notice. However, when they come knocking on the RSPBA’s door with a broadcast proposal, the matter never gets any air at all because this is all a quaint little cottage industry, full of woolly eccentrics. I think it’s a case of the RSPBA keeping their head in the sand and hoping it never gets tested. A class action would make things rather lively!
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Published: November 15, 2012
Author: Ken | (report inappropriate content) |
| I cannot comment on the copyright issue as I do not know the circumsatances but that aside, I consider this book the best value for money in a long time. It contians both old familiar (and unfamiliar) tunes as well as modern compositions and a higher than average number of them are really worth playing. |
Published: November 15, 2012
Author: BillLivingstone | (report inappropriate content) |
| Here's my personal take on the copyright issue.
Approached in Glasgow to autograph the book, I noticed my tune...the book was opened to that page.
I thought and could not recall even being asked for permission let alone giving it. So I wrote to Jimmy Banks of the Guards who I believe was the moving force behind the collection, expressing my concern that my copyrighted work was included in the SGIII. Jimmy wrote back to say that when he and I judged the Master's competition at the Piping Centre he asked me for permission, and says that I gave it.
I replied by email to Jimmy that I regard him as an honourable guy, and if he says it happened that way, then I accept that. But I pointed out that asking for verbal consent from me in the middle of a contest that he and I were judging is no way to deal with the important issue of copyright. I also pointed out that at $75 a pop, this book is certain to generate some real revenue. And what is the effect on sales of my own self financed collection in which the tune is originally included? I have had no response from him.
This whole affair speaks to the cavalier treatment of copyright issues in the piping world. One could readily check with the BBC and the RSPBA to see what steps they take to ensure the creators of the works played are properly compensated for their use on Albums, CDs, broadcasts and live streaming. Most would be surprised at the results of such an inquiry. |
Published: November 15, 2012
Author: NeilDickie | (report inappropriate content) |
| Very interesting take on the SG III, Ken.
I don't know about the others, but I was never contacted for permission to publish. Probably the reason they have so many attributions wrong. It's nice to be included, but still, in this day an age, none of us are that difficult to contact.
I'm wondering if they got permission from a Scottish recording company which purports to own my stuff. I certainly hope that's not the case, because that's not very nice either, is it?
Neil Dickie |
Published: November 15, 2012
Author: DavidMathews | (report inappropriate content) |
| the review kind of suggests that permissions may not have been granted or something. I hope that that is not the case. I love all the great tunes in there but most I would think are under some sort of copyright so does that mean that anyone can publish whatever they want? Don't get me wrong this is a great book. |
Published: November 15, 2012
Author: Doc | (report inappropriate content) |
| I was pleasantly surprised. It's like the Scots Guards went through all my old music books and picked out many of my old favorites.....Mrs Lily Christie, Jeannie Carruthers, Pipe Major Sam Scott, Pipe Major George Allan, 10thBat HIL Crossing the Rhine, and newer favorites The Haunting, Jack's Welcome Home. North American composers are very prominent along with PM Donald MacLeod and PM Donald Shaw Ramsey.
Kent Argubright | |
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