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COMMENT(S): John MacColl's mysterious inspiration – a doozy of a dilemma
Published: February 12, 2013
Author: Charlie | (report inappropriate content) |
| Just a quick note about tempos suggested in "More Music for the Highland Bagpipe." (1967) "John MacColl's March to Kilbowie Cottage" - 68 , "Patrick W. Sandeman" - 74, and Strathspeys at dancing tempo - 132. I seem to remember Seumas MacNeill writing an article in the early 1970's about Donald Morrison's playing of "Donald, Willie, and his Dog" at the northern meeting. He mentioned that the competitors were playing like they were afraid of missing the last train. Donald Morrison played at a slower tempo and was given first prize. How much did Seumas' opinion change the tempo of jig playing, particularly when he was judging?
Recall Jim McGillivray's article about "The Green Hills of Tyrol" and the "known" source of the melody. In 1960 when Andy Stewart recorded it as "A Scottish Soldier", was that plagerism? By that time the tune was certainly well known in Scotland. In 2060 will anyone care? Regardless of the inspiration, John MacColl was an excellent composer and I have certainly enjoyed playing and listening to others play his tunes through the years. By the way, the next time you listen you should clearly hear the 6/8 march "Steamboat" fairly early in "Nutcracker Suite." Plagerism? If so, by whom?
Charlie Armijo |
Published: February 11, 2013
Author: AndrewBerthoff | (report inappropriate content) |
| Not at all! Comments go where they may, and I've learned to expect the unexpected. Personally, I think that the idea of copyright has changed. Folk music tradition is usually one of adaptation and reinvention of tunes, so what's plagiarism today perhaps was simply the way it was back then. I hope we can investigate further. A "family tree" of a tune like Arthur Bignold could be very interesting.
Re CJAMMBE: I had weekly lessons with him for two years, and indelible in my memory is him lifting both arms to the beat to try to get tempos up, especially in marches and strathspeys. I have a hard time enjoying a march slower than 67 bpms. They just don't swing. And strathspeys less than 118 don't dance. |
Published: February 11, 2013
Author: JimMcGillivray | (report inappropriate content) |
| I have to think poor Andrew Berthoff must be steaming. Here he does this tremendous piece of research on the great John MacColl as a possible plagiarizer, and all we're talking about is how great John MacLellan's tempos were!! Sorry Andrew, my fault! |
Published: February 11, 2013
Author: Stig | (report inappropriate content) |
| Two good questions are why and when did the slowdown start in Scotland? If I listen to the Grants MSR recordings from the seventies there are still some fast players. Stig Bang-Mortensen |
Published: February 10, 2013
Author: MichaelGrey | (report inappropriate content) |
| Good words, Colin. Agree with what I imagine you're suggesting: time to pump up the tempo, like our forebears and company, they must've known pipers in our time would be competing for the attention of mainstream music in the range of 100-130 BPM - oh, and they were obviously playing the old school way , to boot. |
Published: February 10, 2013
Author: BillLivingstone | (report inappropriate content) |
| Colin:
I heard your Dad many times, and have many recordings of him. He was not a sluggish player. It was very brisk and really entertaining, if a bit nerve wracking to the modern listener accustomed to the rather dirge-like marches at 64 bpm and strathspeys at 118 bpm...anxiety inducing..."will he manage it at that speed"? He did and beautifully.
I have a small anecdote which might shed a little light on his thinking about tempo. Once in the early years he was judging the Frasers at a contest where we played the Argyllshire Gathering at about 94 bpm...he told me he thought that was "about right".
If people shy away from very high tempos today, surely there's a compromise available. I believe Alasdair Gillies made the 66 bpm march the current popular trend. There aren't many Alasdairs around now to make that work the way he did.
Bill |
Published: February 10, 2013
Author: Stig | (report inappropriate content) |
| A couple of things springs to mind regarding old recordings and speed. Remember that speed and pitch are closely linked on theese recordings. From Jim MacGillivrays website I have the set of hornpipes by John Wilson. His chanter pitch is 481 and the speed is high. Recordings of Willie Ross from the same period shows a chanter pitch of 419 (G#). If I speed this recording up to Bb (467) the playing speed is ridicolous. On the other hand if I slow the John Wilson recording down to under Bb (463) the playing speed becomes more natural. If the players had theese tough restrictions and their ideal speed deviated so much, why not just play two hornpipes instead of three? I sometimes think they hammered it because that was the call of the day. Willie Ross played fast in 1898, 1910, 1927 and 1930 when he made his commercial recordings, so the speed increase was not something that just suddenly happened.
Stig Bang-Mortensen |
Published: February 10, 2013
Author: rsm | (report inappropriate content) |
| Colin, I sincerely hope that we have within our means a method of delving into this tale of intrigue, but you know and I know that frequently because of the number of years that have passed this is sometimes impossible. This points out our need to make sure that we pass on as much knowledge as we can presently. I talked to John Wilson about the speed that he played on his recordings, because he did not normally play at that tremendous speed even though he was quite a fast player. He explained that the recording companies gave them time constraints, and there were no replays in those days. Hence, the very fast renditions of tunes. Can you imagine what your nerves would be like knowing that you had to play at that speed with no mistakes. It speaks much of the older pipers skills. I suspect that Willie Ross played under similar restrictions.
Reay Mackay |
Published: February 09, 2013
Author: ColinMacLellan | (report inappropriate content) |
| I hope that someone delves a little deeper into this tale of intrigue - however there is no doubt that of course John MacColl was one of the great march composers.
The Abercairney Highlanders was arranged after an old Highland air called "Ranting Roving Highland Man", I think it's a bit more likely that the Little Teapot thing was a derivative of that as well and not the other way around. I think that tune first appears around the end of the 18th century.
As far as the tempos, I find that quite interesting. There's no doubt that Pipe Major Ross played fast - however he did so, to paraphrase the great words, "because he could". I doubt anyone could have played like that and still maintained the crystal - clear and perfect finger technique which he had. Some of his marches were well in excess of ninety beats a minute. Ironically, on hearing that tape of my father playing "The Old House of Wick", which was before I read Jim's comments, I thought it was a bit slow for him! But the great thing is, that although it is at 80 beats per minute, it does not sound rushed, nor deficient in phrasing. He was 59 when he made that particular recording. The late great P/M Angus MacDonald played marches even faster sometimes, but again with no loss of phrasing or musical relaxation, and with finger technique which allowed the middle note of each movement to be the biggest.
I have heard recordings of John Wilson of Toronto who played similarly with perfect fingering at a rather crazy (for us) tempo.
I'm sure Ross was responsible for raising the level of tempo in his day; and it will naturally fall back until someone again perhaps takes the initiative and provides some musically perfect playing at a bright tempo - after all, that's so much harder to do, but so much nicer to listen to. We're getting to the stage just now that the majority of the marches in professional competitions are played in the low 60 beats a minute. Is that wrong? - perhaps not, but it's not exactly riveting stuff for the audiences. |
Published: February 07, 2013
Author: Stig | (report inappropriate content) |
| The recording wasn't fast enough or low pitched enough to be Willie Ross but fine as on the Piping Tapes John MacLellan published in the seventies.
One thing that puzzles me though, is that the only recording of John MacColl (from Tony Langfords archives) I have heard, shows a fairly mediocre player that where no way near the technique necessary to reproduce John MacColl tunes as we know them. Did Willie Ross actually do him a favour? |
Published: February 07, 2013
Author: iainmacdonald | (report inappropriate content) |
| True that about the recording, Jim. I actually had to flip back to to make sure I read it correctly, because it sounded like Willie Ross's recordings, although with a better sound! |
Published: February 07, 2013
Author: JoriChisholm | (report inappropriate content) |
| I've enjoyed playing John MacColl's tunes for my entire piping life. I won the A Marches at Oban playing Mrs. John MacColl as taught to me by Alasdair Gillies and I have played Arthur Bignold many dozens of times in competitions and performances. I think it's fascinating that so many of MacColl's tunes start with high a and f pick up notes to an e doubling.
Fascinating article! |
Published: February 07, 2013
Author: JimMcGillivray | (report inappropriate content) |
| Very insightful piece, Andrew. Your readers are perceptive, and hopefully we might soon learn of other pieces in the puzzle. I wanted to comment on the remarkable sound recording of Capt. John MacLellan. I heard him play in recital several times around the time this tape would have been made but this recording struck me as a remarkable echo of the style of play we hear in some of the old Willie Ross recordings. Remarkable technique with, as John himself used to say, "lots of go." My recollection is that this was his style, though I never heard it as apparent as in this recording. If you'd told me that was Ross playing in 1930 I might have believed you. | |
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